Oh indeed! I love the Summers sisters relationship to pieces - even when they annoy the hell out of me, or maybe because of that? It's one of the most "real" sister relationships I've probably seen on televison. My sister is eight years younger, was very confident and streetwise, but also the one who would mouth off, took no shit from anybody, ran away from home once, etc. While I tried, when we were kids, to be surrogate parent to her (and my brothers) while my mom, who was single, was out at work. She turned out to be pretty terrific, no thanks to me, and we really love each other now more so than then I think. But a lot of the way Buffy and Dawn interact just WORKS and is so believable - & SMG and MT have terrific chemistry together. (Why do I not have a Buffy & Dawn icon yet?)

After all the Riley talk and grrr-ness of my last post, I needed to get back to basking in one of the things I love best - the women of the 'verse.

I just left a couple of reviews for two of your fics btw. Powerful stuff!
Also gonna reply here because

SMG and MT have terrific chemistry together.

YES I think so too! They work really great together. I think they're still friends, even? MT was at SMG's first baby shower, at least.

Also there's footage out there of SMG posing with a bitty MT and I squee when I see it.

/random creeper fan things
They work really great together.

It was really brilliant of Sarah to insist on casting Michelle - her instincts were great. I have a younger sister as I was saying to Gabrielle and they just get the dynamics right. Casting a 9-10 for the role wouldn't have worked as well, at all. She couldn't have "mirrored" Buffy in the same way, and I don't think she would have offered to sacrifice herself to stop the portal, or had the same understanding of what that might mean.

I think they're still friends, even?

I don't know, I've not heard anything contrary-wise, so I'll trust you on that. (Now I want to go see that footage, and I'm not even into babies.)

Did you see the WingedBuffy comlodge made for me?
I have a younger sister as I was saying to Gabrielle and they just get the dynamics right. Casting a 9-10 for the role wouldn't have worked as well, at all. She couldn't have "mirrored" Buffy in the same way, and I don't think she would have offered to sacrifice herself to stop the portal, or had the same understanding of what that might mean.

Huh. That's an interesting perspective!

I don't know, I've not heard anything contrary-wise, so I'll trust you on that. (Now I want to go see that footage, and I'm not even into babies.)

Haha, the footage is not of the baby shower, but like two seconds of SMG and bitty!Michelle Trachtenberg posing for a photo or something. It's part of a long SMG interview.

Did you see the WingedBuffy comlodge made for me?

I saw it! But I didn't really engage with it enough for commentary yet. Will change that. :)
Huh. That's an interesting perspective!

I really can't take credit for most of that; a lot of it comes from the discussion about Dawn on the recent metacommentathon. (I'll have to find the link when I'm less lazy and busy.) My contribution was mostly fanwankiness about why Dawn's "younger than her age" behavior actually worked for me in context.

It's part of a long SMG interview.

I've enjoyed some of her interviews; she can be funny and rather blunt sometimes. Did you ever see the one where she responds to the idea of a BtVS reboot movie? "They did that movie already! It starred Kirstie Swanson!" Is Sarah the only person on the planet who hasn't forgotten that she's not the first person to play the role?

I saw it! But I didn't really engage with it enough for commentary yet. Will change that. :)

I might have gone a little overboard on that one but that just came so out the blue when she created it. I don't know why I'm so tickled by my own kink. Anyhoo, only comment if you feel like it of course.
I really can't take credit for most of that; a lot of it comes from the discussion about Dawn on the recent metacommentathon. (I'll have to find the link when I'm less lazy and busy.)

I saw that, actually!

My contribution was mostly fanwankiness about why Dawn's "younger than her age" behavior actually worked for me in context.

I'll have to revisit it for this bit though. My memory occasionally sports very sieve-like qualities.

I've enjoyed some of her interviews; she can be funny and rather blunt sometimes. Did you ever see the one where she responds to the idea of a BtVS reboot movie? "They did that movie already! It starred Kirstie Swanson!" Is Sarah the only person on the planet who hasn't forgotten that she's not the first person to play the role?

Funny -- recently I saw a tumblr gifset tribute to the movie. :)

I might have gone a little overboard on that one but that just came so out the blue when she created it. I don't know why I'm so tickled by my own kink. Anyhoo, only comment if you feel like it of course.

Ahh, surprises like this are always so sweet! I'm happy for you at any rate. <3
I'll have to revisit it for this bit though. My memory occasionally sports very sieve-like qualities.

Only "occasionally"? I envy you then - my ADD has ADD. I'll make a point of pulling that bit over here to my journal this week; because it really probably just got lost over there.

recently I saw a tumblr gifset tribute to the movie. :)

True story - it came out in theaters when my partner and I were first dating in Greensboro NC, and it was either the first or second movie we saw together on a date. (The other was the Ben Stiller film Nothing in Common. Either that was a lousy year for movies or being in love crippled my judgment. Actually, I think it had more to do with my partner's preference for watching comedies.) The only part of the movie I remembered afterward was the dream sequence with Buffy and the lead vampire (Rutger Hauer) in her bedroom, that didn't seem like a dream at first - very dark and subtly erotic. It's the one part of the movie that I still connect strongly to the tone of the series (somewhat like the Angelus arc or Dead Things actually).

boot_the_grime did a meta comparing the movie with the comics version of Buffy's "origin" story that was supposedly closer to the original script. I don't remember much from that, however.

I'm happy for you at any rate. <3

Thanks hon!

I was trying to finish my post rec'ing your story because that was a gift too, in a way, but my partner wanted me to shut it down so we could watch Netflix. I just about had a tantrum, silly me. WHY is it so hard to write this post, and about Tara and Buffy? Because I have TOO damn much to say, not too little. *sighs*
Only "occasionally"? I envy you then - my ADD has ADD.

... yeah okay maybe frequently /mumbles

I'll make a point of pulling that bit over here to my journal this week; because it really probably just got lost over there.

I SHALL PREVAIL though yes, posting it in your journal certainly doesn't hurt. ♥

True story - it came out in theaters when my partner and I were first dating in Greensboro NC, and it was either the first or second movie we saw together on a date. (The other was the Ben Stiller film Nothing in Common. Either that was a lousy year for movies or being in love crippled my judgment. Actually, I think it had more to do with my partner's preference for watching comedies.)

Awww, that's cute! Though I wonder if that was the reason you didn't try the series up to now... since the movie is. Not that great. xD

The only part of the movie I remembered afterward was the dream sequence with Buffy and the lead vampire (Rutger Hauer) in her bedroom, that didn't seem like a dream at first - very dark and subtly erotic. It's the one part of the movie that I still connect strongly to the tone of the series (somewhat like the Angelus arc or Dead Things actually).

Joss is really fond of creepy sexy dreams, isn't he?

WHY is it so hard to write this post, and about Tara and Buffy? Because I have TOO damn much to say, not too little.

Ah, yes, that is also I phenomenon I know. :( Though sometimes I can't even distinguish the two because when I have a lot of thoughts they might become so muddled it seems like having no thoughts at all. ... what are brains.
It's nice to have your essays mentioned.
I haven't been spending much time on LJ lately, but I got the notification I was mentioned. :)

Joss' original movie script can be read online: http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Buffy-the-Vampire-Slayer.html
The dream you mention is one of the few things that were taken from Joss' script, which was much darker and more like the show than the movie was.
And here's my two-part essay about the movie, the script and "The Origin" comics, the later adaptation of the script (combined with the info and flashbacks from the show) which Joss called "pretty much canon", although it does have some problems (what's up with the green, pointy-eared vampires?!).

http://boot-the-grime.livejournal.com/22331.html
http://boot-the-grime.livejournal.com/22562.html

Edited at 2013-06-16 01:43 pm (UTC)
The "not in blood but in bond" types of relationships are the boss of me. Lovelovelove Dawn and Buffy's one.
The "not in blood but in bond" types of relationships are the boss of me.

YES. The notion of "chosen family" is one that was very important in the GLBT community, at least when I first came out in the '90's, so it has a lot of power for me (and still does, as we fight to have our families recognized legally, socially etc.) Dawn's arc here also is a very powerful metaphor for "adoption".

I love the fact that the episode "Family" (5.06) opens with Buffy saying aloud to Giles, for the first time, "I want to protect [Dawn]" and ends with Buffy and Dawn protecting Tara as "family", as a sister. (And Tara returns that in Spades in Tough Love - why does NOBODY talk about her sacrifice and torture at Glory's hands? Is it because women are "supposed to suffer in silence"?) In both instances the bond (committment) proceeds the blood.

Mmm, I need to do some Buffyverse sisterhood meta....


BABIES.

Ugh I love them so much, I can't even tell you. I love Blood Ties.
:) The Summers sisters FTW - it just makes me sad and stabby that people hate both characters; and/or that people focus on Dawn's relationship to Spike to the absolute exclusion of her relationship with Buffy. I mean, Buffy gave up her LIFE to save her sister (and the world). It's like you said, sisterly love trumps everything.

I was writing a response to you before btw and LJ gobbled it up - stupid, stupid LJ.

You've been on my mind lately! How have you been? I'm way behind in posting the link to your story - will do that TOMORROW, no fail. (I'm finally pulling myself out of the cave of depression, little by little.) Also, the Tara meta? On hold but not forgotten. the post I did the other day about "Riley" has my mind going in another direction (but I think I figured out how to link Riley and Dawn's arcs in S5 mwhahahaha....Wait til I compare Blood Ties with ITW.)

Also, remember when you challenged me to "write my own fic"? I've got a very VERY rough draft for a B/T & B/S S6 fic. *gulp* When I've got it in better shape (if ever) would you be interested in looking at it?
it just makes me sad and stabby that people hate both characters; and/or that people focus on Dawn's relationship to Spike to the absolute exclusion of her relationship with Buffy.

Yes, this. :( Not so much stabby because I guess because live and let live, but incredibly sad. Because babies.

I was writing a response to you before btw and LJ gobbled it up - stupid, stupid LJ.

Wow. Bad LJ, bad!

You've been on my mind lately! How have you been? I'm way behind in posting the link to your story - will do that TOMORROW, no fail. (I'm finally pulling myself out of the cave of depression, little by little.)

I've been okay! Mostly flopping around with very little drive to do anything, but luckily I don't actually have a lot of uni this semester. Still, very floppy. Sorry to hear about your cave o' depression, happy to hear it's going upward! <3

And ahah, no worries about linking to my story. I forgot you were even going to do that.

Also, the Tara meta? On hold but not forgotten.

Excellent. :)

the post I did the other day about "Riley" has my mind going in another direction

I saw that post! But I was unsure whether/how to reply, since it was so personal.

(but I think I figured out how to link Riley and Dawn's arcs in S5 mwhahahaha....Wait til I compare Blood Ties with ITW.)

Okay, now I really wanna see that. ... how much of a joke was that? ;)

Also, remember when you challenged me to "write my own fic"? I've got a very VERY rough draft for a B/T & B/S S6 fic. *gulp* When I've got it in better shape (if ever) would you be interested in looking at it?

omg

SCREECH?

I completely utterly endorse this and would be happy to look it over for you!
but incredibly sad.

YES.

luckily I don't actually have a lot of uni this semester

What's your major (or interest, which are not always the same things, are they?)

And thank you muchly for the support. I've tried to accept that it's an up and down thing; but it's so easy when I'm on one end of the other to think "this is the way it's going to be forever". They've done studies - people with depression can experience happiness but have a very hard time remembering it. I was mentioning this to my best friend last night and that's been her experience as well.

I saw that post! But I was unsure whether/how to reply, since it was so personal.

I appreciate the fact that you saw it, even. Replying to it is totally up to you IF you want to. I honestly didn't expect anyone to reply. And, the whole conversation starts going more toward the show Riley and less towards my own anyway. Which normally would be of no interest to me either but apparently I have things to "exorcise".

how much of a joke was that? ;)

None whatsoever:


I completely utterly endorse this and would be happy to look it over for you!

Thanks! It's very in little "snapshots" that could be arranged any which way, so I'm trying to get it into readable shape.



What's your major (or interest, which are not always the same things, are they?)

Asian Studies, with a focus on Japanese language. Just your regular manga geek. ;) Though I've been exceedingly into US TV shows recently. ... are you watching any shows? I watched Ringer for the SMG and recently went through the two seasons of Once Upon A Time.

And thank you muchly for the support. I've tried to accept that it's an up and down thing; but it's so easy when I'm on one end of the other to think "this is the way it's going to be forever". They've done studies - people with depression can experience happiness but have a very hard time remembering it. I was mentioning this to my best friend last night and that's been her experience as well.

Oh, I can definitely attest to that study. Sometimes you just sit there and wonder "is there ever gonna be a time when I/things won't be this way?" And then you get really sad. :(

I appreciate the fact that you saw it, even. Replying to it is totally up to you IF you want to. I honestly didn't expect anyone to reply. And, the whole conversation starts going more toward the show Riley and less towards my own anyway. Which normally would be of no interest to me either but apparently I have things to "exorcise".

Ah, yeah. We all do. I guess I'll go back and read the discussion in the comments! That's also always fun.

None whatsoever:

Well, would you look at that. ... and I wrote a whole three-paragraph stream-of-consciousness metasplurge here but cut it out and saved it for later I thought I'd ask your permission. Because personally, I hate when I (want to) have Ideas and then someone else comes along and does the thinking/talking for me. :P SO if you wanna see what I've got so far, tell me, and if not, I understand that too.

Thanks! It's very in little "snapshots" that could be arranged any which way, so I'm trying to get it into readable shape.

/just waving the pompoms here
are you watching any shows? I watched Ringer for the SMG and recently went through the two seasons of Once Upon A Time.

I'm not much of a tv watcher; my sweetie likes to watch things before bed so we'll watch together on Netflix. I did watch Ringer on my own also, for SMG as you did; I wouldn't have otherwise. (I have some rants about some of the stereotypes on that show and missteps. I'll save them for another time.) I've seen Bones through the end of S7 (I ended up disliking it by mid S3 and the mindfuckery has gotten worse, but my sweetie likes it) and now we're on S2 of Crossing Jordan on a friend's rec. (Also, I had a crush on Jill Hennessy back when she was on Law & Order in the '90's.) I've seen the first two seasons of Nurse Jackie and liked it but the third season isn't available on Netflix.

The other series I really like is Parks and Rec, probably my favorite comedy; my sweetie says she doesn't find it funny.

Other than that, not much. I haven't seen Mad Men, TVD, Breaking Bad, Friday Night Lights, all the series that people rave about. Then again I haven't seen Glee either. So, it balances out I guess.

Sometimes you just sit there and wonder "is there ever gonna be a time when I/things won't be this way?" And then you get really sad. :(

*Nods* Yes to all of this, exactly so, And sometimes it's beyond "sadness". It's not a "cry and then I'll feel better" sad. It's just always there; sometimes it turns to numbness and apathy or hopelessness, sometimes a rage I have to try to swallow, and then back to hopelessness. And if someone hasn't experienced that, they can't "get" it, anymore than I can "get" what it would have been like to grow up in a stable household with healthy parents. It's beyond my ken.

Well, would you look at that. ... and I wrote a whole three-paragraph stream-of-consciousness metasplurge here but cut it out and saved it for later I thought I'd ask your permission. Because personally, I hate when I (want to) have Ideas and then someone else comes along and does the thinking/talking for me. :P SO if you wanna see what I've got so far, tell me, and if not, I understand that too.

I like that word - "metasplurge"! I'm going to borrow it, I think. As to the other, oh certainly if you want to post something on your LJ instead of here, do; just send me a link so I can look at it, and if this convo inspired you, just give credit and link here. (Mutual linkage, hah.) If something I said inspired more thinky-thoughts in you then that's a huge compliment.

(I have some rants about some of the stereotypes on that show and missteps. I'll save them for another time.)

Oh, yes. Did that show ever fail. It was a glorious trainwreck basically.

I've seen Bones through the end of S7 (I ended up disliking it by mid S3 and the mindfuckery has gotten worse, but my sweetie likes it)

Baw, that's sad. :( I vaguely, very vaguely thought maybe I'd give it a try someday. Also I hear good things about Parks and Rec.

Also you have actually watched more TV than I have, I think. But then I don't even own a TV so I just stealth-stream stuff on the internet. I watched a few eps of Glee and was thoroughly unimpressed. The main brand of humor in that series seems to be "nasty".

*Nods* Yes to all of this, exactly so, And sometimes it's beyond "sadness". It's not a "cry and then I'll feel better" sad. It's just always there; sometimes it turns to numbness and apathy or hopelessness, sometimes a rage I have to try to swallow, and then back to hopelessness. And if someone hasn't experienced that, they can't "get" it, anymore than I can "get" what it would have been like to grow up in a stable household with healthy parents. It's beyond my ken.

Yes. :( *hugs tight*

I like that word - "metasplurge"! I'm going to borrow it, I think.

Haha, feel free!

As to the other, oh certainly if you want to post something on your LJ instead of here, do; just send me a link so I can look at it, and if this convo inspired you, just give credit and link here. (Mutual linkage, hah.) If something I said inspired more thinky-thoughts in you then that's a huge compliment.

Oh, no, I was going to post it here; as I said, I was just worried I'd be like. Precluding YOUR thinky-thoughts or something. Which I don't wanted to accidentally end up doing.

Did that show ever fail. It was a glorious trainwreck basically.

Meh. "Glorious trainwreck" is too dignified a phrase for it. I liked the "moral ambiguity" - and from what I saw in interviews with Sarah, that was exactly her intention: the series was actually getting more interesting when it concentrated on the sisters and their relationship, as well as their reversals of fortune rather than plot mechanics - if it had started out closer to that level, we might have had something. It needed to be more intelligent from the get-go, not "clever". There's a difference.

But Bridget did punch Mr Cooper. Never mind that she doesn't look tall enough to reach his jaw even with her 4" (?) heels. (I think it was actually her yelling at him rather than the physical action that I loved. There is SOMETHING about Sarah's voice, and it's not the sort of voice I usually am attracted to in women; I tend to prefer huskier, deeper voices, and her's is anything but. Or maybe it reminded me of a scene in "postmodern western" The Quick and the Dead where Sharon Stone goes after an asshole who just had sex with a 12 year old girl. Or Joyce with the fire axe in School Hard. Fierce, protective warrior mamas FTW.)

Also I hear good things about Parks and Rec.

Word of (internet) mouth got me watching it, esp Nathaniel Rogers praise on "the film experience blog" which I used to visit every day. I haven't watched S1 but apparently it got a lot better (or so I've heard said) in S2. I might go back and watch S1 at some point. The humor is so dry and deadpan, and it's a tight ensemble - it's played as a "reality show" or "documentary" in some ways in that the characters do stop at times to talk to the camera. Amy Poehler is marvelous so yes, do give it a try. And one of my other favorite shows was Dead Like Me, have you seen that? That's the great thing about Netflix, discovering older shows that didn't get much of a chance and I missed the first time around. I love Georgia so much - and I found a nifty little fic that's a DLM / btvs crossover, I'm surprised there's not tons of those. We also loved Better off Ted, an office comedy that only lasted two seasons, and we LOVED No Reservations but Netflix took that off streaming *pout*

We don't own a tv either, or rather, cable hookup; haven't since I got together with my sweetie in 1996 or '97, because she didn't own one. And after having had it with a housemate I knew that there was almost nothing on for the money. Which is why I never saw Buffy when it originally aired.

*hugs tight*

*HUGS BACK* Aw thanks, hon I do love hugs. Sometimes I think I'm going to rename this LJ "Hugs Central". :-) Whatever went on in my house when I was a little girl, showing affection was something I did learn from my mom; there was that baseline of love and support, so I guess that's part of the reason I appreciate Joyce and wish she'd been on the show more.

Snoopy addendum on someone else's conversation: watch Lost. I think of Jack in the same way I think of Riley: I genuinely like the guy, he just makes some dickish choices and I really don't ship him with anyone. Also on Netflix

OH AND SEE IF YOU CAN DOWNLOAD SEASON 1 OF ORPHAN BLACK. BEST THING I'VE SEEN IN A LONG, LONG TIME.
You had recommended Lost for Kate's story back on my Ted meta didn't you? I still haven't gotten to it. (My sweetie and I tend to watch a series on Netflix all the way through, then move on to the next one when we're done. We're watching Crossing Jordan right now. She used to only want to watch comedies but you know what? Most comedies suck IMO.)

SEASON 1 OF ORPHAN BLACK.

I confess I've never heard of it, but thanks for the rec! *runs to look it up*

ETA: speaking of dickish choices, I like Garrett Macy on Crossing Jordan quite a bit, but boy is he messed up when it comes to the women in his life. I love him and Renee Walcott together because they are so well-paired; she is tough, whip-smart, and calls him on his shit. (I'm only in S3, though, so I don't know if they go anywhere with those two.)

Edited at 2013-06-28 07:23 pm (UTC)
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